tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post2218460126939289505..comments2024-03-28T10:14:58.693+00:00Comments on The Good the Bad and the Insulting: Space Marines Part 1 - The Lore (Warhammer 40,000 Codex Review, 7th Edition)Bellariushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02652722543111095280noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-24856061118989401092015-06-18T04:10:44.920+01:002015-06-18T04:10:44.920+01:00As I said, I'm really hoping that's a one-...As I said, I'm really hoping that's a one-off bad book in a series of good ones (this one also had significantly less new stuff in it rules wise as well, mostly it just re-printed things), they've still got half of the Ultramar conflict to go so fingers crossed that's the case (we'll know for sure in the next book). <br /><br />Unfortunately that series might also significantly slow down, it took them three books to do Isstvan (understandable with all the stuff that happens there and the aftermath), one book to do Horus vs The Galaxy, and in the entirety of the new book they barely started the shadow crusade, and are going to finish it in the next one. <br />I'm at least hoping that they'll finish the series off by book 10 since The Burning of Prospero is book 7, and I'm presuming the Caliban is a book, the war on Mars is a book and same with the battle on Terra, not to mention they're covering Custodes and Sisters of Silence in book 7 (Prospero), presumably along with White Scars (if they do the aftermath), Space wolves and Thousand Sons.<br />They're running very low on who they can give rules to, all that's really left that after Tempest (book 5) that I can think of is the Dark Mechanicus, Dark Angels, White Scars, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons and Corrupted Legions (maybe renegade Knights as well).<br /><br />Anyway back to this, it's a shame that they annexed the stories as that could have really been a place for the demi-companies to shine and show how/why a formation could really work together, and would also be a cool way of showing what they can truly accomplish.<br /><br />That's an interesting statement, the 6th edition book was very sparse on why the Black Templars were going on their crusades (it's more than just killing things), so I'm presuming this new book isn't any better and it would make sense if they wrote them like that so they could give their good fluff to the Imperial Fists.<br /><br />That's a real shame they skip over the gene-seeds being deficient or hyper-active. The Imperial Fists for example cannot use two of their organs (acid spitting and one that helps them survive trauma from suspended animation, which actually might explain a lot) because they've either atrophied or flat out do not function. Conversely you've got other chapters that have hyper-active organs and can use certain abilities, like the acid spitting as a functional weapon (finally a reason the commander doesn't wear a helmet!) and this isn't even getting into the Cursed Founding chapters. Do the Cursed Founding chapters even get a mention? They're a pretty large part to just gloss over.grdaathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722216755745063033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-29296822187295970812015-06-17T23:59:32.792+01:002015-06-17T23:59:32.792+01:00thanks for the correction Grdaat. You know funnily...thanks for the correction Grdaat. You know funnily enough I have the Skitarii codex and read it without really absorbing that there were stories back in it. I have to say though they aren't really stories, as they have no plot, beginning, middle or end, they are just vignettes now, little snapshots. Anyway I am glad they are back and will hope they improve and regain the awesomeness of the short stories from the Realm of Chaos books, surely the highpoint of in-codex-fiction GW acheived!<br /><br />Something else that has vanished is pictures of tables that look like tables where a game might be played. None at all in the BRB! I found that amazing. Instead its diorama type shots. Odd. Anyone would think it wasn't a game we were playing, but something more akin to model railway building if one just looked at the pictures...Knight of Infinite Resignationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680099835726778306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-71406680849286953262015-06-17T08:24:57.338+01:002015-06-17T08:24:57.338+01:00Hell's bells. I'd seriously been hoping Fo...Hell's bells. I'd seriously been hoping Forge World would remain a high point for lore, but if that's happened part of me is very worried the same sort of editorial demands which seem to plague this edition might be carrying over to there. I'll reserve judgement until I read it myself of course, but that bit alone sounds utterly ridiculous beyond belief. Hell, it actually tops some of the terrible lore we got involving Perutrabo being united with his sons, and that seemed to primarily be due to John French's influence.<br /><br />As to answer your questions though, there are a few general bits of lore which do give some suggestions as to how demi-chapter formations and the like work. For the most part they seem to be treated more as assembled strike forces from multiple companies or ones sent in for proportional responses to smaller or greater threats. It's not openly emphasised but there are a few general points which do try to explain and outline their elements in the lore. It's nothing major it's more than we usually get.<br /><br />As for the treatment of chapters, I did hear that the Black Templars had been seriously hacked off, but I had no idea things were this bad with them. I'm surprised they weren't made completely codex adherent with these massive changes, and the more cynical part of my mind makes me wonder if it was done in preperation for Sentinels of Terra. After all, that codex effectively returned all of their aspects back to the Imperial Fists without leaving the Templars anything at all.<br /><br />As for the Iron Hands, yeah, it's complete nonsense. I can definitely get how a primarch's death can impact a chapter, but whoever wrote this was a man handed fool with no concept of time, how the impact should affect the chapter and an apparent hatred for their existing lore. Their "flesh is weak" statement was more a hatred for weakness and willingness to make hard choices, not going out of their way to get people killed and abandoning them for no reason like the codex here. It's disgraceful really.<br /><br />And finally, the gene-seed I don't think is brought up at all. The only bit which comes to mind is mention of the Raven Guard's degeneration briefly in the timeline, but beyond that it's barely remarked upon. Damn, really does show how bare bones the whole thing truly is.Bellariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02652722543111095280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-14910909631175427222015-06-17T08:05:24.942+01:002015-06-17T08:05:24.942+01:00Well, they sort of are. Codex: Necrons I think you...Well, they sort of are. Codex: Necrons I think you're right, it still does, and the same goes with some of the earlier 6th Edition codices as well. The problem is that of late a lot of the ones have started to remove the bigger tales. There are still brief story extracts and perspectives from characters, but these tend to be only a paragraph or so long. By comparison, there's nothing like the page to two page long descriptions of campaigns, wars or events which served as examples of what each army was capable of. Nothing like the War of Dakka, Commorragh Raid, the Mu'gulath Bay invasion or even examples such as the World Engine conflict. As much as i've criticised many codices for trying to turn themselves into novels, these stories are an important part of books, and they serve the role of showing what the army is capable of while offering events to give them greater character.<br /><br />Personally, I think their removal is down to two things. The first is due to the lack of time on each codex's part, with the schedules becoming tighter every passing release until, right now, we're getting one release every month. Sometimes multiple ones per month at especially excessive times. The other is that I personally think they wanted to completely separate this aspect from the codices following backlash against a lot of poorly handled decisions. This was probably to be justified under something like, allowing fans of the works to still collect and read them without irritating the majority, but it still doesn't work. It's removing a major cog from a greater machine and expecting it to run just as well on its own. As such we're left with a line of codices being treated like novels (not to mention exceptionally badly written ones in most cases) and a line of main books lacking a lot of their flavour text.Bellariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02652722543111095280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-59374520885242845732015-06-17T01:28:56.672+01:002015-06-17T01:28:56.672+01:00To be fair the new Necron codex still has those, s...To be fair the new Necron codex still has those, same with the Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii books, though I'll agree they are sparser than they should be, and I for one would welcome replacing the massive amounts of splash pages for those.grdaathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722216755745063033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-49985495116879762182015-06-16T21:35:25.476+01:002015-06-16T21:35:25.476+01:00This is the reason I think Warmachine/Hordes does ...This is the reason I think Warmachine/Hordes does fluff better than Warhammer/40k; most of the rulebooks are given over to actual short stories, with the more dry descriptions being reserved for the short fluff-entries on the actual rules pages.<br /><br />I have to wonder why they don't include this stuff in the codices any more. Just, take an edited down excerpt from a Black Library novel and copy-paste it into the codex, and BAM! Instantly more interesting reading, because it has some flavor to it now.<br /><br />To put it into cooking terms (to show how serious I am), what GW is doing right now is putting all the ingredients for a five star meal on the table and telling us to dig in. What they've failed to realise is that unless you actually COOK this stuff before you eat it, it won't taste very good at all. (This is the best metaphor I've ever written!)Buzzkillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09249135776018420369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-32504939815037448102015-06-16T10:23:29.426+01:002015-06-16T10:23:29.426+01:00I really miss the short story sections in GW books...I really miss the short story sections in GW books, they used to be so great and now they have vanished altogether. It must have been a conscious decision as they are gone from everywhere, including main rulebooks and every codex.<br /><br />What this means in my opinion is that these books often read like a dry textbook ABOUT the 40K universe, rather than an immersion IN it.Knight of Infinite Resignationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02680099835726778306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1831276194138109948.post-39305429429096340352015-06-14T10:53:10.664+01:002015-06-14T10:53:10.664+01:00I'm expecting the lore of this codex to be a b...I'm expecting the lore of this codex to be a breath of fresh air after reading Forgeworld's Tempest at least. To charitably describe their portrayal of the Ultramarines is "Guilliman does it better" as at a few points Guilliman sees what other Legions and even the Mechanicus do/develop, and then beats them at their own game. It's extreme to the point that Matt Ward would have backed off from it and said it was too much (at the very least Ward didn't try to make Guilliman the master of everything like the book practically says he is). <br />As an example, among many stupid things that book outright states if the Ultramarines and their Auxilia were made aware of Horus' turn to evil they would have made a bastion that could have taken on the entirety of Horus' rebellion (as in all of the traitor legions and their supports like the Dark Mechanicus) BY THEMSELVES. BEFORE ISSTVAN HAPPENED. <br />The book makes them THE vital threat for Horus to overcome (again, before Isstvan happened).<br /><br />I guess the Imperial Fists, Blood Ravens and Custodes didn't even try to defend Terra, if only they had Guilliman... <br />It's a shame too because the previous books were very interesting and fun to read while also taking into account the skills of each legion and their Primarch, even the more ridiculous ones worked pretty well thanks to how they were presented, like how Mortarion can teleport himself short distances without any sort of device doing it for him (which is supported by at least one of the Black Library books). Funnily enough this ability even gets passed onto a few of his sons in a way (ironically one of them became a Librarian), allowing them to walk in out of nowhere in full terminator armour to gun down troops while not having used or needed any sort of device to get there.<br /><br />Let's hope Tempest is just a one-off disaster in an otherwise very interesting series. Anyway, back to the current lore, I don't remember there being nearly as much Ultramarines loving in the previous codex as this one, the 6th edition book did try to make them look like outstanding marines, but that was because they knew how to do a lot of things well, even if they didn't excel in any one area (not to mention their track record). It also painted those who didn't follow the Codex Astartes as more a curiosity rather than ones who were doing anything wrong.<br /><br />That Iron Hands bit was garbage though, and it makes no sense. It didn't make sense in Clan Raukaan and it doesn't make sense here for Iron Hands to care so much for the death of their Primarch when none of them were there to witness it or participate in the following heresy. Same with the attitude of abandoning the weak, especially when that means they are effectively a renegade chapter, and that bit of them being engulfed by darkness makes no sense because what darkness are they even talking about?<br /><br />Unfortunately that bit about the Black Templars is actually carried over from the 6th edition book, for some reason they thought it would be a good idea to make them into the male version of the Sisters of Battle, and I do mean that in almost every sense.<br /><br />I'm also not really seeing anything here that the 6th edition codex didn't do aside from the artwork, incidentally that's one you should get if you want some better Marine lore.<br /><br />Out of curiosity, does this codex explain how the various Formations (as in the rules) actually work? Because those are some of the biggest examples I've seen of gameplay/story disconnect in all the new books. You'd figure if they were so widely used (or so grandiose) they'd at least all get a passing mention or a paragraph to themselves.<br /><br />Also does it go into detail about the various genetic differences between chapters? Something I always found interesting is that some of the Gene-seed the Marines have/receive is defective or works far above expectations and to gloss over this point seems a bit odd.grdaathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722216755745063033noreply@blogger.com